Moonstone #12 - Tiger Blood Part one

[germ]

 

Ivan wrote:

germ wrote: Are you sure Falk 'moved' the Phantom or was it more of a case of Barry changing the style of the jungle, natives and animals etc??? I say that because Barry's drawings and style was definatly more African than McCoy. I am sure!

Can I ask how???
It was Sy Barry who added the address of Morristown being in Africa (The Reef) and before that there was no reference at all about Bengalla or the Phantoms home being in Africa.
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Germ
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[LennartMal]

 

germ wrote:

Can I ask how??? It was Sy Barry who added the address of Morristown being in Africa (The Reef) and before that there was no reference at all about Bengalla or the Phantoms home being in Africa.

Sorry for butting in here, but Germ, tell me that you are joking.

Did Sy Barry relocate The Phantom to Africa? Wow...

I respect you, Germ, but please, here you need to go back and do your homework. You are way off.

I am a Falkist. I thought the relocation of the Phantom from India to Africa was his biggest mistake, so I do not defend it, neither do I defend the ridiculous and very, very, very belated explanation why tigers can be found in Africa. It is better to let that matter drop entirely, i.e. leave tigers out of the stories completely.

I also think the Phantom's Doctor Doolittle qualities can be a bit on the fantastic side. And now I also know (thanks to B. Reeves Eason) that the tiger behaviour we see in No. 12 is most unlikely to occur even if we pretend that we are still in India.

I feel a bit more ambivalent towards this story now. I initially thought it was moving closer to the Phantom I like and chose to ignore the tigers more or less, but now I am not so sure.

Lennart

[germ]

 Ok so how did the Phantom move to Africa??? Was it totally Lee Falk or was it indeed McCoy???

I say what I did because McCoy's and Barry's landscape looks light years different and from the little that I know about the two landscapes (have not yet visited either) McCoy looked more Indian were Barry looked more Africa...
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Germ
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http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/Doubles (my Phantom doubles)

[Ivan]

 

germ wrote:

Ok so how did the Phantom move to Africa??? Was it totally Lee Falk or was it indeed McCoy???

Sometime very soon after the WW2 stories we can clearly see that Falk had "moved" his hero from a Indian environment to a sort of Africa.

But as Lennart say, you have to read these stories!

After the death of McCoy, Falk got Barry and he found that his style was indeed fit to upgrade the series a bit. The slow moving from a continent to another finally became "official", and we got a African country with revolution, president and big cities! We got Bengal.

From that point the tigers should have been forgotten, not erased away like the communists did, but hidden way back in everyone’s head just like the "stupid" things you do in life that are best not to talk about.

Well, Falk forgot to do that, and used the tigers some times, but suddenly he found that this could not go on.

He wrote an explanation about how the tigers came to Bengal. He also used this in a late story around 1990 - Tiger, tiger! When reading this I think he wanted to write the last about the tigers, this time there is a person having tigers as pets, and I think he wanted to tell us that tigers would need to have someone to look after them in a strange country and that the few who got away could not last for long.

I would be an easy task for any writer from that point to ignore the tigers and go on with the Phantom in a real Africa. Mostly they did, but some did not do their "homework" well enough so tigers are not left in peace, but are raving around in an African jungle even today.

Ivan

[germ]

 Personally I feel the tigers have their place in Bengalla and we just need to remember that this a comic and that means that not everything needs to make sense and that would include having tigers and lions in the same location.....
_________________
Germ
---
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/ (my collection)
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/Doubles (my Phantom doubles)

[Ivan]

 

germ wrote:

Personally I feel the tigers have their place in Bengalla and we just need to remember that this a comic and that means that not everything needs to make sense and that would include having tigers and lions in the same location.....

I know you see it that way, but for the fans of the Phantom it is not that simple, we like to have the series remind a bit special, and not like every other mainstream we see everywhere.

I would like some input on my opinion from other fans, are you there?

Ivan

[germ]

 Dont get me wrong I dont want superman or any other totally unrealistic powers/ crap added in my Phantom but Tigers is not that much of a big deal imho. They are realistic enough to be real and I dont see how Tigers can really bring a story or comic strip into the unrealistic realm.
_________________
Germ
---
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/ (my collection)
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/Doubles (my Phantom doubles)

[Ivan]

 

germ wrote:

Dont get me wrong I dont want superman or any other totally unrealistic powers/ crap added in my Phantom but Tigers is not that much of a big deal imho. They are realistic enough to be real and I dont see how Tigers can really bring a story or comic strip into the unrealistic realm.

Would the fact that they do not exist in Aftica be point for you?

Ivan

[renn]

 

Ivan wrote:

germ wrote: Personally I feel the tigers have their place in Bengalla and we just need to remember that this a comic and that means that not everything needs to make sense and that would include having tigers and lions in the same location..... I know you see it that way, but for the fans of the Phantom it is not that simple, we like to have the series remind a bit special, and not like every other mainstream we see everywhere. I would like some input on my opinion from other fans, are you there? Ivan

 

I think that the biggest mistake was to move the Phantom from 'Luntok' in the first place, as the locality was a perfect base of operations for the Phantom being set in the Java Straits where the existance of tigers and lions is more likely than on the African Continent, and the history of piracy is better known than the Arab pirates and the present day Somalian pirates.
However according to Falk, there are tigers in Bengalla so I guess that whether we like it or not, there will be stories that have them as a part of the tale.
_________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on, I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne - The Shootist (1976).

[Ivan]

 Hi

renn wrote:

However according to Falk, there are tigers in Bengalla so I guess that whether we like it or not, there will be stories that have them as a part of the tale.

Well, that are up to the writers, and if they listen to what fans want, we get what we like! I think as a reader and fan I should not just sit down and take whatever comes "if I like it or not"!

Ivan

[LennartMal]

 

renn wrote:

I think that the biggest mistake was to move the Phantom from 'Luntok' in the first place, as the locality was a perfect base of operations for the Phantom being set in the Java Straits where the existance of tigers and lions is more likely than on the African Continent, and the history of piracy is better known than the Arab pirates and the present day Somalian pirates. However according to Falk, there are tigers in Bengalla so I guess that whether we like it or not, there will be stories that have them as a part of the tale.

I always find it very hard to defend the move from one continent to another, and the tigers are perhaps the most vivid example of what happens when you take such drastic action.

Those of you who feel that I occasionally go on too much about misrepresentations in Moonstone books, witness my discomfort with this Falk-created issue. I cannot explain it away.

Lennart

[Ivan]

 

LennartMal wrote:

Those of you who feel that I occasionally go on too much about misrepresentations in Moonstone books, witness my discomfort with this Falk-created issue. I cannot explain it away. Lennart

Well, yes, but as Falk did it very early it was not that hard to swallow. Remember this started as a strip for daily reading back in late 30ties. The understanding of jungle, Africa or India I think was not very well educated in the minds of the readers then. Both were far of countries surrounded by mysteries, and wrong information.

With the exceptions of the island Luntork, Falk did not mention the country much, and when he later started to use African elements in the stories I am not sure that anyone saw the changing.

Why did the tigers move along? Well, that is a tricky one, one explanation could be that McCoy had a very big influence in the strip from early fifties and till he died, when he visited Norway he answered questions like he was the one that decided what direction to take. I am not sure he got very detailed information about what to draw from Falk, thus tigers instead of Lions.

In the end I once more like to ask; where are the fans of Moonstone? We have waited for issue #12 for some time, now it is among us and ready to be discussed. Well how many have done so?

Perhaps some have not got the book jet, but surely a lot of moments here can be discussed without reading the book.

And the writer himself, well he had lots of time explaining about him coming up with something new, well I guess all that time have just gone away?

There could not be another reason??

Ivan

[germ]

 

Ivan wrote:

Well, yes, but as Falk did it very early it was not that hard to swallow. Remember this started as a strip for daily reading back in late 30ties. The understanding of jungle, Africa or India I think was not very well educated in the minds of the readers then. Both were far of countries surrounded by mysteries, and wrong information.

Think your onto something hear mate...
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Germ
---
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/ (my collection)
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/germ17/Doubles (my Phantom doubles)

[renn]

 

Ivan wrote:

Well, that are up to the writers, and if they listen to what fans want, we get what we like! I think as a reader and fan I should not just sit down and take whatever comes "if I like it or not"! Ivan

 

For once it looks like we are in agreement, but the trick is, to be able to put our likes and dislikes across without being too harsh and uncompromising in the way that we do it.
_________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on, I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne - The Shootist (1976).

[Ivan]

 Hi

renn wrote:

For once it looks like we are in agreement, but the trick is, to be able to put our likes and dislikes across without being too harsh and uncompromising in the way that we do it.

Well, an answer to that may be to judge what is written, not how it is written.

I never "comprimise" my opinions!

Ivan